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Can we report published, non-fort authors?


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#1 Ranger

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:43 PM

Not sure if this should go here to to the Book area.

Just recently finished reading the latest Posleen book by John Ringo, "Eye of the Storm".  And he ends the book in a nasty cliffhanger, essentially building up through the whole book to a peak that is not quite reached since it ends so abruptly.

Another one is one that Ringo has collaborated with in the past, David Weber.  The Honor Harrington universe is starting to look quite a bit like the CSU, with various plots and scenes interweaving between the 3 novel series, and mentions of things that happen in another series abounding, even when the other book has not been published yet (for example, in the last book, "Storm from the Shadows", there is mention of an attack on another star nation, that has not happened in any other book yet, although it is obvious that it will be looked at in more depth when another series catches up).  And to really add in to the likeness of the CSU, he also ended it in a cliffhanger of an impending attack!

It is annoying enough when a cliffhanger take place between chapters, particuarly when it is done serially like it is with the CSU, and you have to wait for the next chapter.  But when it is done at the end of a BOOK.....

*sigh*

Waiting for November for the next Honorverse book, and it looks like it might be Jan for the next Posleen..

#2 DenisP69

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 03:47 AM

View PostRanger, on Aug 25 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

Can we report published, non-fort authors?, I have a couple....

*sigh*


You can try,

But knowing the level of competency in our local CHP Station.
I do not know if it would do any good...
They have been known not to be able to find and arrest a scofflaw sitting in their own front office!!!  :whistling:


#3 Crackerwriter

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 05:31 AM



Leaving cliffhangers, (I mean Dramatic Pauses), at the end of

a BOOK ????

THAT'S MONSTROUS !!!!!!!!!   :roflmao:



RUNS FOR THE HILLS........


CW


#4 Timbeau

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 06:34 AM

Looks like some one has completed his Evil Author PHD.  That nice Mr Str8 will have to work hard to regain his title as the Evilist Author

Edited by Timbeau, 26 August 2009 - 06:35 AM.


#5 Abd al Weled

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 06:45 AM

View PostDenisP69, on Aug 26 2009, 10:47 AM, said:


You can try,

But knowing the level of competency in our local CHP Station.
I do not know if it would do any good...
They have been known not to be able to find and arrest a scofflaw sitting in their own front office!!!  :whistling:

It's not that they can't... it's that they won't... they've been paid off with doughnuts and jellybabies...
protection schemes are much more lucrative than law enforcement... :)

[edit]s/that/than/[/edit]

Edited by Abd al Weled, 26 August 2009 - 06:48 AM.


#6 Rilbur

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 09:11 AM

View PostTimbeau, on Aug 26 2009, 04:34 AM, said:

Looks like some one has completed his Evil Author PHD.  That nice Mr Str8 will have to work hard to regain his title as the Evilist Author

The two author's mentioned could probably school Str8, Ilu, and every other author around here put together in evil author stuff.  Cliffhangers at the end of books are their speciality!

#7 Jay

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 09:53 AM

View PostDenisP69, on Aug 26 2009, 04:47 AM, said:


You can try,

But knowing the level of competency in our local CHP Station.
I do not know if it would do any good...
They have been known not to be able to find and arrest a scofflaw sitting in their own front office!!!  :whistling:

Oh I dunno, it sounds like fun. I might just end up doing such a thing with Destiny's Edge.

#8 Crackerwriter

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 03:45 PM

Quote

(Timbeau @ Aug 26 2009, 04:34 AM)
Looks like some one has completed his Evil Author PHD. That nice Mr Str8 will have to work hard to regain his title as the Evilist Author


Someone had to train Str8mayb . . . . . . . . .   :roflmao:



CW


#9 christian

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 03:57 PM

View PostDenisP69, on Aug 26 2009, 04:47 AM, said:


You can try,

But knowing the level of competency in our local CHP Station.
I do not know if it would do any good...
They have been known not to be able to find and arrest a scofflaw sitting in their own front office!!!  :whistling:

SOOOOOO true! They have had all the proper tips to find who damaged patrol car 54 (even a visit from the culprit) and all they figured out was to try and buy their way out with donuts!

#10 DenisP69

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:49 PM

Sorry about the Double posting of this but we all should know the history of such a intolerable habit!!!!

It is SOOO nice to see a chapter end happily without a Cliffy...

[Thank the Internet for 'Wikipedia']


From Wikipedia:

"A cliffhanger or cliffhanger ending is a plot device in fiction which features a main character in a precarious or difficult dilemma, or confronted with a shocking revelation. A cliffhanger is hoped to ensure the audience will return to see how the characters resolve the dilemma.

The phrase is believed to come from the end-of-episode situation in adventure silent films of the early 1900s days, with the protagonist literally left hanging from the edge of a cliff, although the oldest usage the Oxford English Dictionary has is from 1937. Some serials end with the caveat "To be continued," or "The End?" In television series, the following episode usually begins with a recap (a.k.a. "previously").
Contents


History

The idea of ending a tale at a point where the audience is left in suspense as to its conclusion (which is then given at another time) may have been a staple part of storytelling for almost as long as the idea of stories have existed. It is a central theme and framing device of the collection of stories known as the One Thousand and One Nights, wherein the queen Scheherazade, who is facing a morning execution on the orders of her husband King Shahryar, devises the solution of telling him a story but leaving it at a cliffhanger, thus forcing the king to postpone her execution to hear the rest of the tale.

The term 'cliffhanger' may have originated with Thomas Hardy's serial novel A Pair of Blue Eyes in 1873. At the time newspapers published novels in a serial format with one chapter appearing every month. To ensure continued interest in the story, many authors employed different techniques. In the aforementioned novel, Hardy chose to leave one of his protagonists, Knight, literally hanging off a cliff staring into the stony eyes of a trilobite embedded in the rock that has been dead for millions of years. This became the archetypal—and literal—cliff-hanger of Victorian prose.

Once Hardy created it, all serial writers used the cliff-hanger even though Trollope felt that the use of suspense violated "all proper confidence between the author and his reader." Basically, the reader would expect "delightful horrors" only to feel betrayed with a much less exciting ending. Despite the rhetorical distaste all serial authors used the cliffhanger and Wilkie Collins is famous for saying about the technique: "Make 'em cry, make 'em laugh, make 'em wait – exactly in that order."

Collins is famous for the Sensation Novel, which relied heavily upon the cliffhanger. Examples of his endings include:

"The next witnesses called were witnesses concerned with the question that now followed--the obscure and terrible question: Who Poisoned Her? (The Law and the Lady) "Why are we to stop her, sir? What has she done?" "Done! She has escaped from my Asylum. Don't forget; a woman in white. Drive on." (The Woman in White) "You can marry me privately today," she answered. "Listen--and I will tell you how!" (Man and Wife)"

This anticipation and conversation inducing authorial technique would often be very contrived as the only purpose was to maintain interest in the monthly serial. Therefore, these were regularly removed from the plot when the serial was published as a full novel.

The cliff-hanger migrated to film and is best known from the popular silent film series The Perils of Pauline (1914), shown in weekly instalments and featuring Pearl White as the title character, a perpetual damsel in distress who was menaced by assorted villains, with each installment ending with her placed in a situation that looked sure to result in her imminent death – to escape at the beginning of the next instalment only to get into fresh danger at its end. Specifically, an episode filmed around the New Jersey Palisades ended with her literally left hanging over a cliff and seeming about to fall.

Possibly the most famous cliffhanger was at the end of the 1969 movie, The Italian Job, where the escape vehicle was literally balancing on the edge of a cliff.

Although a cliffhanger can be enjoyable as a page turner at the end of a chapter in a novel, a cliffhanger at the very end of a work can be frustrating. Cliffhangers can build anticipation (and, subsequently, profit) for sequels. However, if no sequel follows, effective suspension of disbelief can leave the audience or readership wondering what happened in the work's fictional realm. Sometimes (for example at the end of Blake's 7) that goes so far that people write fan fiction (or even publish a novel) deciding what happens next......


Serial media

Cliffhangers were especially popular in 1920s and 1930s serials when movie theaters filled the cultural niche now primarily occupied by television. Cliffhangers are often used in television series, especially soap operas that end each episode on a cliffhanger. Prior to the early 1980s, season-ending cliffhangers were rare on U.S. television (the first such season-ender on U.S. TV was in the comedy send-up of soap operas Soap in 1978), although several Australian soap operas, which went off air over summer, such as Number 96, The Restless Years, and Prisoner ended each year with major and much publicised catastrophes, such as characters being shot in the final seconds of the year's closing episode.

In the US it was the phenomenal success of the "Who shot J.R.?" season ending cliffhanger on Dallas, which closed the show's second season, that led the cliffhanger to become a popular staple on television dramas and later situation comedy series as well. Another notable cliffhanger was the "Moldavian Massacre" on Dynasty in 1985, which fueled speculation throughout the summer months regarding who lived or died when almost all the characters attended a wedding in the country of Moldavia, only to have revolutionaries topple the government and machine-gun the entire wedding party. The "Best of Both Worlds" episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation in 1990 is also cited as a reason that season-enders are popular today.

The two main ways for cliffhangers to keep readers/viewers coming back is to either involve characters in a suspenseful, possibly life-threatening situation, or to feature a sudden shocking revelation. The 2003 Season Finale of Home and Away features an example of both a shock cliffhanger (in the revelation that Angie Russell was Tasha Andrews' mother) and a suspense cliffhanger (the Sutherland family trapped in a mine shaft).

Cliffhangers are also used to leave open the possibility of a character being killed off due to the actor not continuing to play the role. The aforementioned Star Trek season finale worked around the possibility of Patrick Stewart's contract expiring. Between seasons, his contract was renewed and as a result, the character of Captain Picard survived the cliffhanger.

Cliffhangers are also sometimes deliberately inserted by writers who are uncertain whether a new series or season will be commissioned, in the hope that viewers will demand to know how the situation is resolved. Such was the case with the second season of Twin Peaks, which ended in a cliffhanger similar to the first season with a high degree of uncertainty about the fate of the protagonist, but the cliffhanger could not save the show from being canceled, resulting in the unresolved ending. Due to the multi-part storylines becoming the norm in comics (instead of self-contained stories) the cliffhanger has become a genre staple.

Commercial breaks can be a nuisance to script writers because some sort of incompleteness or minor cliffhanger should be provided before each to stop the viewer from changing channels during the commercial break. Sometimes a series ends with an unintended cliffhanger caused by a very abrupt ending without a satisfactory dénouement, but merely assuming that the viewer will assume that everything sorted itself out.

Sometimes a movie, book, or season of a television show will end with the main villain and a second, evidently more powerful villain makes a brief appearance and becomes the villain of the next film. A good example of this is the anime version of Viewtiful Joe, which ends with Captain Blue being defeated and returned to normal, and then a large space craft approaching Earth. Pixar's The Incredibles spoofed this convention by having a new villain, The Underminer, burst into view from underground at the very end of the movie."


Though you would like to know...

#11 Timbeau

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:32 AM

View PostCrackerwriter, on Aug 26 2009, 09:45 PM, said:


Someone had to train Str8mayb . . . . . . . . .   :roflmao:



CW
So once Str8mayb has completed his course with Ringo and Weber will that mean we have a Dr in the house

Dr Str8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Mayb?


#12 W.L

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:54 PM

Lucky for me, CHP hasn't been able to capture me, while I write my two and a half stories.

#13 Ranger

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 10:45 AM

*Sigh*

Just finished the latest Honorverse book, Torch of Freedom.  Should have known better.  Although the attack that I said was mentioned in Shadows did indeed take place in this book, and a lot of background info of other events that are only mentioned briefly in other books is provided, this book actually stops short of the time that Shadows stopped.  In other words, that cliff is still there...

Knowing that Weber tends to cycle through the three series, the next one SHOULD handle that impending attack that ended Shadows.  Regretfully, it is not even on the horizon, by the looks of things.  At least, there is no mentioned of it in the upcoming area of the Baen website, which is currently up to next May...

Oh, and I was wrong about the next Posleen book.  The one that I thought it was looks like either a standalone or the start of a new series.  There is another one that might be the next Posleen book, but it is not scheduled until April

#14 Rilbur

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 06:42 PM

View PostRanger, on 15 November 2009 - 10:45 AM, said:

Knowing that Weber tends to cycle through the three series, the next one SHOULD handle that impending attack that ended Shadows.  Regretfully, it is not even on the horizon, by the looks of things.  At least, there is no mentioned of it in the upcoming area of the Baen website, which is currently up to next May...

Well, some digging on Wikipedia turned up some interesting information.  It used to be expected 'early' or 'march' 2010 (or at least, I could have sworn it was) but now the betting appears to be centered on July 2010.

http://www.baen.com/scheduleXML.asp

And there it is, confirmation!

What I want to know, is when is the next Bahzell Bahnakson book out?  :D

#15 Ranger

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:47 PM

View PostRilbur, on 11 January 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

Well, some digging on Wikipedia turned up some interesting information.  It used to be expected 'early' or 'march' 2010 (or at least, I could have sworn it was) but now the betting appears to be centered on July 2010.

http://www.baen.com/scheduleXML.asp

And there it is, confirmation!

What I want to know, is when is the next Bahzell Bahnakson book out?  :D

Or the Empire of Man series.  Last I heard, though, he is going to go back to the Dagger Wars and the beginning of House Miclintock.

#16 Rilbur

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:35 PM

Personally, I always felt that story was ended quite well (and thus doesn't need sequels, or even prequels though I won't object :D ).  It was a bildungsroman for Roger McClintock.  From Spoiled Brat (and that is too mild a term to discuss Roger as he started out), to prince, to holy terror (for his enemies) / general extraordinaire, to Emperor.

#17 Ranger

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 04:27 AM

Yes, but we still have Adoula, who got away and is no doubt going to cause all sorts of mischief.  Besides, I for one want to see more of the survivors, from Julian to Poertena to Despreaux.  Not to mention Admiral Helmut, Dark Lord of the Sixth.  I have no doubt that he will get bat to them, eventually.

Another series that he need to get back to as well is the Dahak series.  They still need to deal with the main Nest, you know.

#18 Rilbur

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 03:11 PM

Sure, there's plenty more to tell.  But Roger is as developed as he can possibly hope to get, and do you really think Adoula has a snowball's chance in hell against Roger?  He's...  He's Roger, and he does not loose.

#19 Ranger

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:24 PM

/me pictures a Raider company made up of Mardukians...

#20 Rilbur

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 12:55 AM

View PostRanger, on 12 January 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

/me pictures a Raider company made up of Mardukians...

Depending on the Mardukans, that would be pretty nasty.  Of course, some of them can't hit the broad side of a barn.  From inside it.  With a laser sight.  (You know who I'm talking about, I'm sure).







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